The Power of Routines...Even in Middle School

Series 2 Teacher to Teacher Podcast

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[00:00:03.08] MALE ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Corwin's Teacher to Teacher podcast, with host Carol Pelletier Radford. Carol is an experienced classroom teacher and university educator, founder of mentoringinaction.com, and author of four best-selling professional books for teachers. She believes the best form of professional learning happens when teachers engage in authentic conversations and share their wisdom.

[00:00:23.97] In every episode, Carol and her guests share stories about pivotal moments in their careers, successful classroom strategies, and personal actions they take to minimize stress and stay healthy. The Teacher to Teacher podcast is a place to engage in authentic conversation and reflection with experienced educators. We hope these conversations will energize you, keep you inspired, and remind you why you chose to become a teacher.

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[00:00:50.10] TORI BACHMAN: Hello. Welcome to the Teacher to Teacher podcast, sharing our wisdom with host, Carol Radford. I am Tori Bachman, a Corwin editor and co-organizer of this podcast, which we've created for teachers at all levels who are searching for practical wisdom they can use in their classrooms. We believe we're all constantly learning and we're learning together.

[00:01:11.45] To share their wisdom today, we have two teacher guests with broad experience and really interesting backgrounds. I'll introduce to you now, Tyler Brundage and Jared Amato. Tyler Brundage is a middle school general music teacher and band director. In addition to his teaching responsibilities, Tyler has taken on the roles of building mentor coordinator, district induction coordinator, and district middle school unified arts curriculum. Tyler also is one of the educators who's featured in Carol's recent book, which is titled, When I Started Teaching, I Wish I Had Known, Weekly Wisdom for Beginning Teachers.

[00:01:49.87] So Tyler, I just want to say, so happy you're here because I know how busy you are. My brother, Nate, who I'm going to shout to now because he happens to be one of our most loyal listeners, is also a music teacher who wears a lot of hats like you do. So I appreciate all that you do in your school and your district. And I really thank you for taking time to hang out with us today. Thanks for being here.

[00:02:12.26] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:14.15] TORI BACHMAN: And also, we have Dr. Jarred Amato, an award-winning English teacher, the co-founder of the Project Lit Community, and the author of a new professional book called Just Read It, Unlocking the Magic of Independent Reading in Middle and High School Classrooms. Jarred enjoys reading, writing, and laughing alongside young people every day, and collaborating with fellow educators to improve literacy access, attitudes, and outcomes. After 13 years of teaching in Nashville, Jarred recently relocated to New Jersey, where he and his wife are attempting to keep up with their two-year-old son. Good luck with that, Jarred.

[00:02:52.28] JARRED AMATO: Thank you.

[00:02:53.36] TORI BACHMAN: And we are really happy to have you here, Jarred. Thanks for joining us. And we're really excited about your book that's releasing in February. We've all been--

[00:03:04.68] JARRED AMATO: I'm excited too.

[00:03:05.19] TORI BACHMAN: Good, thank you. Thanks for being here. We've all been looking forward to this conversation. And like I said, we appreciate this time with you to learn with you and from you. And we're looking forward to hearing some wisdom. So I'm going to turn this over to Carol.

[00:03:21.30] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thanks, Tori. And welcome everyone who's listening. It's season two. I'm so excited, and glad to have Tyler and Jarred here. So I just want to say to our listeners, the purpose of this podcast, Teacher to Teacher, is really to create a space to acknowledge and honor the wisdom that classroom teachers bring to our profession.

[00:03:48.25] So I'm delighted that Corwin sees the wisdom in hosting a second season of this wonderful conversation, which it will be. So let's just dive in. Tyler, I'm going to start with you. Welcome. Tell us how you ended up in this music, where you are now, what you're teaching. And did you always want to be a teacher? I want to know a little bit about that.

[00:04:15.82] TYLER BRUNDAGE: OK. So no, I didn't always want to be a teacher.

[00:04:19.06] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: [LAUGHING]

[00:04:20.53] TYLER BRUNDAGE: I had actually up until January or February of my senior year, I was ready to go off to school and study forensic chemistry.

[00:04:29.27] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, very different.

[00:04:30.73] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Yeah, night and day.

[00:04:32.29] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes. [LAUGHING]

[00:04:33.85] TYLER BRUNDAGE: I was very heavily involved in our school's music program. And I started teaching some people saxophone so they could play in marching band, jazz band, concert band. And just seeing them progress, and being like, wow, I helped them. I helped them accomplish this. This is really cool. And that kind of guided my decision into pursuing music ed.

[00:04:59.14] Went through the courses, went through school, ended up coming back home to my hometown to student teach. And my supervisor was retiring at the end of that year. My principal was very receptive to the things that I was bringing into the classroom. He was excited to watch me work, and offered me the job at the end of that year.

[00:05:18.91] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow. That worked out very nicely, like meant to be. That seems meant to be. And what do you like about teaching in your own district, like, coming back to your own district? Does it have some pluses and minuses to doing that?

[00:05:34.78] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Yeah, you know everyone. But you know about that.

[00:05:38.65] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: That's good and bad, right?

[00:05:40.75] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Exactly, yep. But it's cool working with a lot of my former teachers. And even just in the music department, I think there's seven of us, three of them had me as a student. So just collaborating with them and seeing--

[00:05:55.58] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, wow.

[00:05:56.41] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Yeah so it's kind of seeing both sides of, OK, this is what I saw in their classroom as a student. And now, this is what I'm seeing as a colleague. It's kind of nice to see the full circle of everything that they're doing.

[00:06:07.77] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes. And you're also a mentor leader as a beginning teacher in your own school. You've taken on that role of district. How was that organized that you're mentoring teachers?

[00:06:21.45] TYLER BRUNDAGE: So I took on the mentor coordinator role in our building. And that's overseeing the whole mentoring program. I assign mentors to new teachers. I organize different district-wide or building-wide group mentoring activities to kind of help and support our new teachers.

[00:06:40.77] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Love it. And you're a new teacher. So when new teachers that are listening here, that novice teachers can actually be part of these leadership roles, I'm very excited about that. And we don't have to have new teachers wait until they've been teaching for 20 plus years to step in. So congratulations for doing that.

[00:07:01.95] All right, Jarred, your turn. So did you always want to be a teacher? What brings you to this profession?

[00:07:12.85] JARRED AMATO: Forensic chemistry.

[00:07:14.38] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: What?

[00:07:15.16] JARRED AMATO: Forensic chemistry for me. No, that's crazy. I don't even know what that is.

[00:07:19.51] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I don't either.

[00:07:20.34] JARRED AMATO: I definitely did not-- chemistry in high school is the only course I ever-- like, I didn't fail, but it was close. I worked really hard for a C. So no, I've always been-- I've always been a reader and writer. So I think I was-- not to start this on a down note, but my dad passed away in 2019. And when he passed away, my brother and I were going through boxes and we found trophies in yearbooks.

[00:07:49.69] And I found this big journal from elementary school. And it was really cool. I think we should bring that back. Like, I carried that thing from kindergarten through fifth grade. And every year there was a bunch of things in it. And so there was a letter in there. There's pictures. There's stories. There's poetry.

[00:08:04.38] There was a letter that I had written to my second grade teacher, and it was a Dear Future Second Grade Teacher, my name is Jarred Amato. I'm seven-years-old. I am good at baseball, basketball, reading, and writing. And it's really crazy like, I am-- I've coached sports. I've played sports throughout high school.

[00:08:22.38] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: You're doing an interview already [LAUGHING] in second grade.

[00:08:27.33] JARRED AMATO: And I loved it. As a reader, identified as a reader and writer then, and have been reading and writing ever since. Went to college as an English major and a sports journalist. So no plans to become a teacher though until I had a college professor that was incredible, Dr. Whiting. And that brought me-- I was 22. I started teaching eighth grade English at Jerry Baxter Middle School in east Nashville.

[00:08:52.86] At 22, had no idea-- I think Tyler and I were talking before we got on here, like, no idea what I was doing. The first couple of years were really hard. I was probably really bad. But I loved it. I coached. I never played football, but we were in the South, so I coached middle school football. I volunteered there.

[00:09:07.06] I had a great mentor teacher who helped me like, the best. I mean, Julie Travis, if she ever listens to this, Julie was incredible. She was my mentor teacher. She was an eighth grade teacher, and helped us-- help me grow in those first two years. And I've been teaching--

[00:09:20.59] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank goodness for mentors. That's my niche. I love it.

[00:09:25.27] JARRED AMATO: I really think-- like, you think about looking back now, this is year 15. Without Julie-- I got lucky, right? I think I did like working with Julie those first three-- and so I followed her. When she moved to the high school, I moved from eighth grade to ninth grade and joined her team at the high school because she was that incredible and that important to me.

[00:09:42.72] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. So let's talk about-- and I'm going to get back to you, Tyler. But I'm going to dive in a little bit with Jarred about-- I'm very interested in pivotal moments, like, how teachers make decisions, like, what happens in your career that makes us decide to do things differently. So can you identify some time in your 15 years that made you think differently, or choose a path.

[00:10:15.97] TYLER BRUNDAGE: So thinking like, that transition I was talking about from eighth grade to ninth grade to high school, it's a different animal, right? Middle school, I've been in both. And they're different. And elementary school, the same thing, right? There's like a different feel.

[00:10:26.83] And so it's a big high school. And you have the library, a beautiful library. And there's a book room in the back. And you go back there and there's like dust on the bins, right, the literal bins. And they're full of books that have probably been there a decade or two.

[00:10:41.20] And I vividly remember a box or or a bucket of Lord of the Flies. And there's not even anything about the book that's a problem, right? I think if I reread it, maybe I would enjoy it now. I think I SparkNoted it in high school to, be honest. And so I was trying to-- so I remember bringing that box, the bunch of books into our room, and had these 9th and 10th grade students.

[00:11:02.52] And I was like-- I was like, how do we do this? Like, what are we going to do? And I remember there's one group that was really awesome. I'm like, let's try it out. Let's see how this goes. And so I passed them out, and they're looking at me and I'm looking at them, and I'm like, what do we do? Looking back, like, there's like a few options that we had, right? I think we could have tried to read it together, and that would've taken a long time. And like, none of the options were ideal or even any good.

[00:11:26.85] And so I think for teachers listening, it's like, there are these moments where, OK, I'm expected to do one thing, but I know in my heart and what my students are telling me that something else would be better, right? And so like, how do we navigate those moments? And I know we're all wanting to-- we all have bills to pay, and we want to keep our jobs, and we want to keep our supervisors happy, and I get all of that.

[00:11:49.06] But ultimately, as a human being, like, reading that book in that moment with that group of students was not the right decision. And so like, how do we navigate? And for me, a lot of times, it's been asking forgiveness, not permission. But I know that doesn't feel right either.

[00:12:04.56] And so I think it really comes down to now with more wisdom being in year 15, it's like, let's just have these conversations with the people in our building that care about kids, about doing the right thing, and like, work together to develop a game plan, and use student feedback, use data, use my expertise, talk to each other. And not like-- the world is already crazy-- and I know I'm ranting a little bit-- but the world is already crazy. There's already enough polarization in this world. We, in the building shouldn't be fighting. We can come together.

[00:12:31.23] We may have different philosophical beliefs around education, around literature. Some may be all about the classics and independent reading we'll talk about. But ultimately, we all care about the right things. So coming together and saying, hey, let's work together to develop a game plan that makes sense for everybody, and definitely our kids. And then when we feel good about what we're teaching, right, that matters. Like, I want to feel good about coming to work and doing things that matter with our young people. And so that moment was really for me, that turning point.

[00:13:00.06] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I can envision it. I can see you with the-- and teachers that are listening probably have a similar situation. So thank you for pointing that out and being able to articulate it for all of us, because we understand that we all don't see things the same way. I want to get back to you though, Tyler, and have you tease out a pivotal moment? Is there one like that in your beginning years? And then I know you're going to share a story with us too. So let's hear what you have to say.

[00:13:35.59] TYLER BRUNDAGE: So I think my pivotal moment was mostly, just my third year teaching. By that time, the first year, you're coming in you're not really sure what's going on. And I think a lot of first year teachers are in that position. But you have a lot of supports in place. Your second year, you're really on your own. And then your third year is when things start to come together for you.

[00:14:00.27] And that year, we brought on a part time chorus teacher. And my former mentor was the mentor coordinator at the time. And she said, hey, I know you haven't done the training yet, but could you help me co-mentor our third grade teacher? Sorry, our chorus teacher.

[00:14:20.51] And we sat down, and she was just saying, I think being given your music background, you can help out a lot more than I can. You can really just share that music background, rehearsal techniques, specific mentoring, just kind of sitting down with him and starting at the very beginning of this is what we do, this is how we do it, this is what works. It gave me a chance to really reflect on my own practices, as well as take a look at his and see what I can learn from that.

[00:14:53.86] And that really got me down the mentoring route, the coordinator routes. And I think that's just so important. Jarred mentioned kind of doing what's best for the students at the end of the day. And that's a big reason why I took that mentor position, because if we start people at the beginning of their career, saying, we need to do what's important for the kids, it might not always be what we're told to do. But at the end of the day, when you become a teacher, it's for the kids. You're there for them. And I think that was a really important moment for me and my teaching.

[00:15:29.72] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Well, I think what I'm hearing you say too, that a lot of mentors have told me in my work with mentors is that they get as much out of the mentoring experience as the novice teacher.

[00:15:42.56] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Absolutely.

[00:15:43.06] JARRED AMATO: And like you, even though you were kind of a beginning mentor, you were redefining your own teaching and making it your own, because you were-- it's kind of I call it, forced reflection.

[00:15:54.81] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Absolutely.

[00:15:55.31] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: You're forced to reflect because you're helping somebody, you have to look at your own practice. And then you-- it sounds like you recreated your own practice and made it your own.

[00:16:04.79] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Definitely, because he would come to me and say, hey, I'm running into this, how would you handle this? And it's--

[00:16:09.29] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Exactly. So let's talk about your story that was selected for the book, When I Started Teaching I Wish I Had Known, your story was selected. Tell us the title and why this story also influenced the way you move forward in your career successfully.

[00:16:32.48] TYLER BRUNDAGE: All right, so the title was Use Student Surveys to Assess Your Teaching.

[00:16:38.06] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK, you're going to ask the students then how to teach. Are they going to tell-- OK, all right.

[00:16:43.49] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Absolutely. And again--

[00:16:45.35] JARRED AMATO: There was one survey I gave one time where like, the response was like, more snacks, more--

[00:16:51.08] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes.

[00:16:51.50] JARRED AMATO: I was like, I'm going to go broke. Like, I had like leftover snacks from like a summer event. And so I had like, the first month. I'm like, I don't have any more snacks to give you.

[00:17:00.44] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I know. We got no more.

[00:17:02.15] JARRED AMATO: More snacks, less work. I was like, OK, there we go.

[00:17:04.85] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Less work, yes. So it's dangerous. That's a good point like to ask the students, and you're a beginning teacher. So just give us a couple of sample questions that you asked. And I'm really more interested in what the results were, and what you did with that information. So what were a couple of questions? What did you ask? [INAUDIBLE] about snacks.

[00:17:26.71] TYLER BRUNDAGE: [LAUGHING] Leading into this, like, the whole survey and everything, I was having a lot of trouble with classroom management.

[00:17:34.37] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK.

[00:17:35.39] TYLER BRUNDAGE: I was afraid to be too strict with the kids because I worried that would prevent me from building a rapport with them. And as a first year teacher, I wanted to be that approachable friend teacher, which you can't always be. But I started off asking just very basic get to know you questions. Tell me about yourself. What are your interests? What are your hobbies?

[00:18:00.80] Do you believe in yourself? Do you think that you can be successful? Do you have people at home that think you can be successful?

[00:18:07.25] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So what happens when you read the responses with your mentor? What was your reaction?

[00:18:12.38] TYLER BRUNDAGE: So for those, everything was very positive, fortunately.

[00:18:19.13] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK. You got some positive feedback. What about as the crucial learning for you doing this? Like, what was the one thing that stood out that changed your practice moving forward?

[00:18:33.56] TYLER BRUNDAGE: The big thing was, I was asking them, what do you need for me to make this a better experience for all of you?

[00:18:40.04] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK, great question.

[00:18:41.27] TYLER BRUNDAGE: And we sat down, we went through the answers. And it was, we need more structure. We need to hear expectations. We need consequences. We need you to hold each-- we need you to hold us accountable for our actions. And that was a huge eye-opener for me where--

[00:18:57.91] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes, because you wanted to be their friend. All the beginning teachers that are listening, this is very good wisdom for all of us. And we hear people say, don't be the friend. Be the-- but you your students actually told you the answer to the test, which was, give us some structure. And how did that work out for you?

[00:19:19.69] TYLER BRUNDAGE: It was night and day.

[00:19:21.31] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, I love that.

[00:19:23.26] TYLER BRUNDAGE: We sat down. We actually had a really good conversation about it. I put them in groups and I said--

[00:19:28.51] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All right.

[00:19:28.90] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Structure, you tell me, what do you want the classroom to look like?

[00:19:32.29] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And then you moved on from that.

[00:19:34.00] TYLER BRUNDAGE: And what are appropriate consequences in your eyes? What do you think if you do this, what should I do?

[00:19:41.32] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And you felt more confident as a teacher, because you got that feedback from your students. So Jarred, what did you think about this surveys? And I want to hear about your book as well.

[00:19:53.12] JARRED AMATO: No, it all connects. So I'm going to do the job. I'm trying to connect. In my brain, I can see it. I see this PowerPoint slide here that's going to connect it all, but it is.

[00:20:01.99] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK.

[00:20:02.87] JARRED AMATO: Human beings, we all crave structure, right? We all crave-- even if teenagers like to act like we don't, they don't want it, but we do. Whether it's reading or exercise, or I don't know, like, our lives, we just like to have things in order, right, checking things off our to-do list, and the little dopamine hit we get from that. Like, just the idea of for me, in an English classroom, we start every day with our reading and WRAP routine. So read and then WRAP, W-R-A-P, write, reflect, analyze, participate. Every day, students-- it's not like, what are we doing today? They know that when they walk in that--

[00:20:40.76] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Say that again, WRAP? Write.

[00:20:42.56] JARRED AMATO: Write, reflect, analyze, and participate.

[00:20:46.07] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, I like that.

[00:20:48.02] JARRED AMATO: And it's an acronym I know we have-- as if we don't have enough acronyms in education.

[00:20:51.56] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: We love them.

[00:20:52.40] JARRED AMATO: But you think about DEAR, right, the old school DEAR, drop everything and read.

[00:20:55.82] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes.

[00:20:56.54] JARRED AMATO: And there's value in that. And I believe in it. But I think this idea to give it a little bit more structure and purpose--

[00:21:02.30] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah.

[00:21:02.72] JARRED AMATO: The idea is that students know every day that they walk in my room, we start independent reading. And so that feeling for them of like, it's a chance to put their phones away, to block out the noise in their lives and in the world, and get lost in a book for 10 or 15 minutes, it's incredible, right, the power of it.

[00:21:23.42] And so like, to Tyler's point early on, I couldn't get kids to always be quiet during that time. And then that time was ruined, right? So like, the idea that our read and WRAP time is sacred now. It's sacred. Nobody messes with it.

[00:21:37.61] They know that during those 10 or 15 minutes, we create the right environment, the lighting, maybe there's light like coffee shop music. But it is really sacred for everybody. And then there's a chance for us to come together and WRAP, and build community, and write letters to authors, and reflect on-- back to the reflection, there we go, right. Like, we reflect on even today, it was Friday, so like, they reflected on their reading over the course of the week, like, how far into the book they are.

[00:22:04.44] We wrote haikus on an index card analyzing character and conflict in their book. And so, right, we're analyzing, we're sharing with each other. I told students that one, like, you could put on your resume that you are a 2024 haiku contest winner. It was just fun, right? We were just being silly.

[00:22:20.28] But the haikus were wonderful. I mean, they understand there are 20 students in that room, 20 different books, but I could walk around and know that they're reading, right? They are actually reading. And then we're talking character and conflict and protagonist. And it was incredible. And we're--

[00:22:36.30] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So exciting. So how can teachers do that? People are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're doing that in your room, but my kids aren't going to listen. And I need help. And so you wrote a book. So what's the title? And is the WRAP in the book?

[00:22:49.68] JARRED AMATO: Yeah, WRAP is--

[00:22:50.61] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK, so I need more. I need more info.

[00:22:53.67] JARRED AMATO: The framework I think is going to be really helpful for folks. That came to us over time. Like, that journey from the Lord of the Flies.

[00:23:00.65] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah.

[00:23:01.32] JARRED AMATO: Like, the read and WRAP framework developed over the course of that year, like, all right, if we're not reading this whole class novel all the time and dragging it on for nine weeks, what are we doing? We're reading, and then we're WRAPping and we're hitting the same standards, right? We're hitting standards. We're surveying students.

[00:23:16.20] Like, to Tyler's point, we're checking in. We're naming challenges. We're helping them develop their personal goals and things that are personally meaningful goals.

[00:23:24.84] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And how do other teachers do what you're talking about? They're going to read your book--

[00:23:29.79] JARRED AMATO: Oh yeah.

[00:23:30.45] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Learn the system, right? They're going to read your book, just read it, right? Read it.

[00:23:35.97] JARRED AMATO: Yeah, so all right--

[00:23:37.17] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love it.

[00:23:37.83] JARRED AMATO: So the title, I think is helpful, right? Like, it is hard. Two things I'll say, one, there is nothing wrong when students are just reading, right? There's this like, I think this misconception in schools that if students are just reading, that we're not doing enough as teachers. It's actually the opposite. To get to a point where students are just reading, that requires a lot of expertise and work on my end. That's hopefully the book will help people get to a point where they can start to get to a point where students are just reading every day.

[00:24:08.73] And then if we get to that point in every classroom in this country, we will be much better off, right? If every student in this country middle school and high school has 10 or 15 or 20 minutes a day to just read-- and then of course, the joke is, like, they're not just reading. They're thinking, and reflecting, and they're growing. And there's so many benefits social, emotionally, academically.

[00:24:31.26] We know all the research around cell phone addiction. And everyone's concerned rightfully about the future of our world and the role of technology. And so getting to a point where students are just reading in every classroom is a goal of mine. It's a dream of mine.

[00:24:45.87] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: It's a goal. But you're extending it. You're extending it. And Tyler is talking-- you know, his contribution and wisdom is about, let's ask the students and let's create the questions. And you're doing the same thing. Like, let's ask the students what they want to read.

[00:25:04.50] And I know that we're all concerned about the cell phone. How are you going to-- how do you address that, either of you, the addiction to the cell phone? And can they be reading on the cell phone? There's the technology, reading on the iPad, reading on the phone. How do you deal with that?

[00:25:26.85] JARRED AMATO: I think there's time-- there's a lot of research that's coming out around like the skim reading and screen reading is different, right? It has different effects on the brain. And so I think embracing like, the old fashioned-- the smell of the hopefully, not too dusty-- the idea of like a book.

[00:25:43.68] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah.

[00:25:44.04] JARRED AMATO: And opening that, and the magic of that. And I think there's going to be more and more people coming back to that realization, and getting time-- with COVID, it was really important right that we had access to technology. But now, if you talk to young people, they're on their screen all day long. And then all the work is posted on there.

[00:26:04.38] And I think we're going to step back and think, wait a minute, I don't think-- I think we'd all benefit-- and how did we get to that point? We model it as the adults, right? We model it at home.

[00:26:12.81] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Right.

[00:26:13.71] JARRED AMATO: With our young people. My son is two. And there are books all over the house. And we sit down and we read. We make time for it before bed every night. And he knows that routine, back to the point--

[00:26:23.46] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love it.

[00:26:24.02] JARRED AMATO: Of routine.

[00:26:24.51] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I feel your energy and your commitment to books, which I love books. I have lots of books. And I appreciate both of you sharing your stories, and your wisdom, and your journeys. I want to wind down with a couple more questions, because teachers are stressed out. And we all want the magic bullet. Like, what can we do that will energize us, keep us healthy, keep us nourished? The kids think we live at school. And many of us do, you know?

[00:26:57.67] But what do you do, Tyler, to take care of the human side? We got the teacher side. We're very committed to that. But what do you do to nourish your body, mind, spirit that our listeners would appreciate?

[00:27:14.41] TYLER BRUNDAGE: So a lot of what I do, we've kind of touched upon already. It's finding that routine. For the longest time, I didn't. I ended up leaving school around 3 o'lcock. I had piano lessons from 4:00 to 8:00. So just finding that time to do it was the biggest struggle.

[00:27:31.24] So now, every morning, I'm up at 4 o'clock. And I go for a walk around the neighborhood. I come back. I do yoga outside. And it's just-- it's getting in touch with nature, I guess. Leave the screen at home. Don't go anywhere near that, and just unplug, disconnect, and recharge that way.

[00:27:53.49] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. And what's your relationship with books?

[00:27:57.87] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Love them. Fantastic.

[00:27:59.55] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Books, you're into the books? Do you have a--

[00:28:02.52] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Yeah, I'm a reader.

[00:28:03.42] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: You are a reader, OK.

[00:28:04.59] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Yep. Love that. Jarred, what's your recharge, human connection besides reading books. We already know you love books. Do you have another?

[00:28:16.70] JARRED AMATO: Yeah, I love to cook. And so like, we'll get off this-- we'll finish this conversation, and my son-- my son has like the ladder now that-- it's a really cool thing. It converts so you can-- it's a table, and then you can convert it to a stool. And so he gets up there with us on the island, and we cook all the time. We'll bake. We'll cook dinner.

[00:28:39.57] And so this morning, he knows like, the ingredients to French toast, which I though was pretty cool. He wanted to make it. He knew-- he knew everything that we need. He listed it all for me. Like, daddy, we need our eggs, our milk, our cinnamon.

[00:28:51.77] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Love it.

[00:28:52.62] JARRED AMATO: Yeah, so cooking is--

[00:28:54.22] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And then you have cookbooks to add into your books.

[00:28:58.81] JARRED AMATO: So now, the library is on-- we drive by the library on our way home from school. So he knows now-- and now, it's a-- I've created a monster. He begs for the library on our drive home. And because we go by it, we have no choice. We drove by, I thought-- I like, I just kept going. I'm like, oh, we're going to go-- no, we had to turn around and go to the library. And we picked up-- there's like a cookie-- like an elmo cookbook that is awesome.

[00:29:25.27] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, so cute. So what I do, one thing that I do that everybody always laughs is called forest bathing. And it isn't taking a bath in the forest. [LAUGHING] It's called forest bathing or forest nature therapy. I love being with trees and the aromas from the trees, the walking in the trees, the walking in nature.

[00:29:51.34] So I encourage the listeners to look up Julia Plevin, just Google forest bathing, and you'll find this whole lots of books and articles about that. And that saves me. That kind of breaks the mind connection to the teacher work, and all the work that we do. So that's my contribution. So last word the two of you, I'd like you to share like a sentence, advice. We have a lot of our listeners are stressed out, struggling, not just for beginning teachers, for all teachers. Do you have a sentence of wisdom that our listeners can take away? Tyler, what have you got?

[00:30:35.59] TYLER BRUNDAGE: Remember, you are so much more than your job. You need to take care of yourself.

[00:30:39.98] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you.

[00:30:40.99] TYLER BRUNDAGE: So that you can take care of other people.

[00:30:43.12] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK, thank you so much. And Jarred, what do you got?

[00:30:46.96] JARRED AMATO: Keep the focus on the young people. They're awesome. They get it. The adults, don't worry so much about the adults.

[00:30:53.65] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK, focus on the students. So we are coming to the closing. I'd like to bring Tori back and have her highlight like, some outstanding messages that you heard in this conversation with the three of us, Teacher to Teacher. What stood out to you, Tori?

[00:31:14.56] TORI BACHMAN: Yeah, thanks, Carol. And Tyler and Jarred, actually, what stands out to me first of all, is that you both really love what you do. And that comes through. And what I'm hearing from you, and your energy, and you teach, you both are middle school teachers, which I wish blessings upon you, because I have a middle schooler at my house. And I know that it's not easy, but it's critical. It's such a really important time in their lives. And it really makes me happy for all those kids who have you both in their lives, that they have such strong teachers and role models, and these people who really care about them. So I just wanted to point that out and thank you for that.

[00:31:59.81] But something that I hear from both of you that I was taking notes on and that really resonates with me is listening to the kids and asking for their feedback about the classroom, and about what they need from you, and how to make it better. And just this is a podcast about teacher wisdom, but I think we need to honor the wisdom of children as well, because they know what's up. I mean, these kids are probably more in touch with their own social, emotional needs than any of us were at that age too.

[00:32:33.68] So I love it that you're calling that out and really centering that in your classrooms, but also talking about it here and giving teachers some ideas for how to just really involve kids in their own education. And I'm hearing the idea of structure coming through loud and clear, you know, that is really important for all of us. As Jarred said, like, all humans, no matter what your age is, structure and routine is really important.

[00:33:00.68] So Tyler, that story that you shared about the kids actually asking for more structure, and how you had sort of an a-ha moment around it I think would probably really resonate with a lot of teachers, because you do want to be liked, and you want to keep things fun I would imagine, especially in a music class, right? Like, that's their enjoyable time. And music should be fun. But it's cool that you asked them for their feedback, and also, like, built in the structures that they were asking for.

[00:33:35.03] And also, I am a little-- a lot biased about the book Just Read It. It is I truly think a book that will change lives. This is going to change teachers' lives and students' lives, because what Jarred has put forth in this book is just a really clear plan to create that space that he's talking about to make reading books a central, sacred part of the ELA day, but I think it could also transfer across all content areas. I mean, I was actually thinking about how a music teacher might incorporate some reading time, because like, coming into a room, and just having that time to get centered with a favorite book would be really cool.

[00:34:18.98] And you both mentioned screens and the distraction of screens. And Jarred, you mentioned the research. I've been reading that research too about how reading on a screen is different. Like, comprehension is different. The attention we pay to details is different. So helping kids to retrain their brains to read more deeply, and to read more thoughtfully I think is really going to be life-changing. And yeah, I want everybody to read your book, Jarred.

[00:34:52.28] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes, OK. Tyler, so Tori, can we send a book?

[00:34:56.69] TORI BACHMAN: Absolutely, yes.

[00:34:57.74] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All right.

[00:34:58.16] TORI BACHMAN: I'll send you a book.

[00:34:59.03] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: There you go, Jarred. Tyler's going to be integrating into music. And all of our listeners, I hope that you will look for that book, and also look for the book with the story that Tyler shares about the student surveys, and 35 other teachers who share their wisdom. So thank you all for being part of this season two podcast.

[00:35:20.03] And I'm going to leave you with a quote from Wayne Dyer today. And he says, "When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." So I'll leave you with that. I hope that you got some inspiring ideas and messages that you can integrate into your own classrooms, whether you're a beginning teacher, or a very experienced teacher who just wants to stay inspired. Thanks, everyone, for being here today.

[00:35:50.17] MALE ANNOUNCER: Thanks everyone, for joining today's Teacher to Teacher conversation. We hope this time together energized you, inspired you, and reminded you why you chose to become a teacher. You can purchase any of Carol's books and any books mentioned in the podcast online at www.corwin.com.

[00:36:06.49] Please leave a review and share this podcast with your colleagues. Thank you for listening to the Corwin Teacher to Teacher podcast, a place to share teacher wisdom and engage in authentic conversations with experienced educators.

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